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Discussion (continued)
Participant: Actually, I've been trying to figure out what I wanted to say, and I can't. But I thought that I would be regretful if I didn't say something; because my history goes back very far. I met the Vajra Regent early, in 1971 when he first came to Boulder. He was great, but his arrival in Boulder changed everything. All of a sudden, I had this intuition or sensation that the world was about to get much bigger than the 20 students who had gathered themselves around Trungpa Rinpoche. And indeed it did. My path over the years was, well, I felt extremely close to the Druk Sakyong. And I felt very, very lucky, because he somehow continually put me into a situation that gave me the opportunity to relate to him in a way that I was so happy about. And I was very much in love with him. I actually got to know the Vajra Regent more around the time of the empowerment in 1976. And over the years, I was very much in love with him, too; the reason being that the instructions that I got from Trungpa Rinpoche were often so cosmic [laughter] and terrifying [laughter] and confusing and also luminous, that I frequently just didn't have any idea what I was supposed to do. And sometimes they were very, very specific, as specific as, when you go to Europe and you take out a pack of cigarettes, offer it to everybody before you take one. They sometimes were on that level. But even that was like, what the fuck is he talking about? Cigarettes? [Laughter]
The Vajra Regent was, of all the people in our mandala — brilliant and wonderful as we all were [laughter] — he was the person who was able to actually help me enter into the Vidyadhara's world. And it was a luminous, wonderful, brilliant world, and it was also, for me, terrifying, because I had to give up things that I didn't want to give up. And the Vajra Regent was always there. The reason I spent a lot of time with him was because he kept coming to visit wherever I seemed to be working on the fringes of the mandala. And his presence was tremendously warm, and tremendously ... I don't know what it was, but to me he seemed to understand Trungpa Rinpoche's teachings. But the main instruction that he gave me over the years was, “Always follow the instructions of the guru.” He repeated that to me and repeated that to me, and I was trying to figure out what those instructions were.
When the whole thing exploded, I was in Europe and I was actually leading the European sangha, which was about 500 people at that time. Everybody loved going to Europe, and if there are any Europeans here…their devotion is tremendous. Everybody wanted to come and teach there, and the Druk Sakyong actually at one point gave me very specific instructions that he wanted to control that. In 19 ... was it '89, I guess … when the atom bomb exploded? Europe became … not a battle ground … but it became a piece of territory that a lot of people wanted. And the Sawang at that time, who happened to be visiting me in early 1989, said to me — he was so insightful — he said, “This whole thing is going to fall on your shoulders.” That was fun [laughs].
I was getting phone calls from all over the place. I want to relate just one incident that was very meaningful to me. The Vajra Regent had actually predicted this to me early on in Europe. He said, when the Druk Sakyong dies there are going to be camps, and you'll have to decide which side you're on. As it turned out, I didn't have to do that. Here's what happened. There were people from one side that wanted to come and teach. There were people from the other side that wanted to come and teach. And I suppose everybody had their agenda. And there weren't many Americans teaching in Europe at the time. But I kind of intuited what was happening. We got together as a group, the governing body there, and we thought, we don't know what's going on over there, but it sounds really crazy. Truly, we didn't know but we kept hearing things. And there were people who would write emails and try to get us involved. But we felt that we had a pretty sane situation. And some of us felt that it was our job to protect that sangha, right or wrong, from the divisiveness that had happened here. So we came up with this plan, which was to declare a moratorium on teaching from outside; that no teachers would come from outside. Probably many people don't know this, but we came up with this plan. I had to call one of the people from the side that really didn't like the Vajra Regent very much and say we have this moratorium, I'm sorry, but we're not having any teachers, and no, you can't come. It was kind of intense, and I called the Vajra Regent, and I said the same thing. I said, “Sir, we don't know what to do but we're having a moratorium. Nobody can come. And he said to me, “Congratulations, Good decision.” That just meant a tremendous amount to me. He never tried to force me onto one side or the other and for that, I'm still grateful. He didn't do that.
My views on the whole thing have been so complicated and so unresolved. And sometimes people have tried to help me resolve them [laughter] — help that I really didn't want. But nonetheless it's not comfortable to have this whole thing. What happened? You know, what's going on? And it's not that I, you know, feel like whatever he did was fine. I don't feel that way. But my love for him and my devotion to the Druk Sakyong through the Vajra Regent remains unchanged. I felt like I had to say something. The last thing I want to say is, in this environment, which is tender ... I seem to be either crying or laughing. Nothing in between. I'm so grateful that you two came and that you did this. I didn't know what was going on out there in Ojai either. You know, I had no idea, but you've really illuminated a lot. It's so great to see you. It's so great to see you. So thank you very much.
PS: Thank you. [Applause]
Participant: Well, I, too, am grateful to see both of you. And I want to thank you, President Reoch, for your efforts in bringing this together. I'm inspired by the Sakyong's inspiration that we're here to help each other. So I'm wondering ... and I'm addressing this to all three of you ... if you could tell us what we as a community could do to help.
PS: Well, someone asked this question in Europe. So I'm a little prepared. I think the process needs space. We need space. Basically, I think everyone wants to work something out that can strengthen the samaya within Trungpa Rinpoche's world. At the same time, the problem with space, as we know, is it tends to degrade into ignorance rather quickly, unless it's met with exertion and prajna. So I think that has to be balanced. We need to give the principal people who need to work on things, space. And yet, if space is used as a way to again bury our heads in the sand and take refuge in denial, then that's a problem. So it's like holding your mind, you have to let it go, but you have to hang in there. So that's my answer. Space, but not ignorance.
RR: Well, this might seem like a rather far-fetched analogy, or just from my own experience, but when I was listening to the last few comments, I was thinking of the 7th of July. It's not particularly important in North America, but it's the day when four bombs went off in London. And Jane and I in fact were on our bicycles that day, and we saw these lines of ambulances screaming through the streets. And though the official policy was not to say that people had been killed, we just knew that from the ambulances. And some of you may have seen that. The Sakyong called me from here to ask me how things were in London, and how the sangha was. He asked me to put out a message to the community. The place that I immediately went, in trying to understand my own confused reaction to this and in the hope that whatever I would say would be helpful to the practitioners who make up our community, was to the Shambhala ngöndro. To that part of the text which says that for lifetimes we have divided into us and them. And as I said earlier, I feel that this is actually in some incredible way—it might seem odd to say this—a gift. If we could figure out with all the incredible resources, all the incredible inspiration, and all the incredible intelligence we have of all the people who have this longing for the Kingdom of Shambhala, how to not divide among ourselves into us and them, then maybe we could at a certain point say, well, there is a path for all those other places in the world which are hopelessly divided into us and them. So, on the one hand I think this situation cuts our own pride and arrogance about proclaiming enlightened society. But it offers an incredible opportunity to realize that we actually have to do this ourselves. Because if we don't, you know, then what exactly is it we think we're advertising? [Laughter] So I would say that the most important thing that we can all do at this time is actually to practice what we've been told to practice, and if we create that intention throughout the vast field of energy we have, that is undoubtedly and unquestionably the foundation for what has to be done — not just to resolve this issue, but actually all the other divisive situations that we have in our community. That's what I think. [Applause]
LLR: I have a little personal experience with this. The practice that comes up in my mind is from the Werma Sadhana. Maybe some people are able to practice that, and others will be shortly. I keep hearing the lines in the sadhana section on the inner offering, which says, “all the dramas that exist in samsara and nirvana, neither more or less, I offer.” And how do you offer? Why you offer is so that they can add to the potential of enlightened society. It's in the emotional realm, and it's in the realm of communication and speech, that this offering takes place. I contemplate that, and I try to offer it in post-meditation as well as in the formal session. That's how I've worked with the path of this. Nothing very over-reaching, really. Just one communication at a time, and not holding back the fullness of the heart and the fullness of the dazzling phenomenal display, not holding back from it. Letting whatever comes come in, and expressing whatever outward without any motivation toward manipulation, not looking for a certain outcome, so that the offering is like the three-fold purity. And that's been my practice, if that's of any value to anyone. [Applause]
Participant: I really appreciate you coming very much. I really loved the Vajra Regent. Right after he was empowered in Boulder, he came to New York Dharmadhatu where I was living and he said to me, “So are you going to leave the sangha now that I'm the Vajra Regent, like everyone else?” And I said, “Well, actually, once I realized the Vidyadhara wasn't picking me, I didn't care who he picked.” [Laughter] And then we talked and I said, “Well, I'm very devoted to the Vidyadhara. Why did he pick you?” And he said, “Well, the difference is, if he told me to run naked in 42nd Street, I wouldn't even think about it, and you would never do that.” [Laughter] So, thank you so much for coming.
Participant: I would like to share a little something from my heart in this whole situation, because I feel I sit in a very unique place. I was extremely devoted to the Vajra Regent. He gave me my refuge name, and my bodhisattva name came from the Vidyadhara. I began doing Kusung shifts with the Sawang, and then very shortly afterward with the Vajra Regent. Then while Rinpoche was dying I was doing Kusung shifts with the Vidyadhara. So I was doing Kusung shifts with all three when I was in Halifax in 1985, '86, '87. And I always felt it was one mind I was working with. I was always completely devoted to all three. And, because I was the Vajra Regent's Kusung, and I felt that I wanted him to love me, I had sex with him, and he had sex with me. I was not gay and I didn't want to have sex with him. But I did, because I was so devoted to him and I wanted to meet his mind. So that has not really wounded me individually, I don't think. But what I recognize is that ... Then I went with Gesar, actually, to India when the whole thing broke, which was '88, as I remember. So I was far away, and all I wanted to do was make sure that I didn't have AIDS. And Johnny Meyer assured me of that in India. He knew, I guess. [Laughter] Even though I had dysentery and I was very sick and I didn't know what was going on. I got back and of course I had a test, and I was okay. But I couldn't give blood when the Vidyadhara was dying. I went to give blood and then they asked me this question, and I had to walk away. I couldn't give blood, which wounded me deeply. But I guess my real point in saying this is, I always held devotion for all of them — identical. Because I knew it was my devotion, it was me holding devotion to the teacher. But what I recognized that happened when I came back and I got an AIDS test and I relaxed, I just began to ignore you, and you, and California, and Ojai. I wanted to go there, but it was just too hard - children, work, everything else. And I just gradually began to ignore it, and ignore it, ignore it and forget about it. To me that was the real poison in my own mind and I'm so grateful to see you now and when I see you speak, and when I see you walk and sit, I feel the Vajra Regent so strongly that I'm ... I'm just very moved. So, thank you for being here.
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